you dumb its never bad in oaklawn its the people comeing over ther makeing it bad

87th and Cicero? There all the time, NEVER a problem...it is C. E. Cheese and Hooters that are our problems...nobody was getting mugged or shot at at Dominick's or HOBO, and the whole strip there is full, including Fairplay, which I'm sure looked at police reports before they moved in.
Longhorn doesn't have problems, and they are further 'east' than Chuck E.'s...K-mart is swamped, but they have security, Target is across the street and so is Portillo's, no problems there...be accurate, STM.

Wasn't there a report that there were more gang-related issues and crime on the west side of OL? I have to admit it surprised me.

87th and cicero? come on. I get that the trash spews over sometimes but bad part of town? Head over to Humboldt Park and edit your statement.

Hickmart is known to have problems, and they have to supply their own roving security patrol car. CEC should have to do the same. Clearly the company is making fistfuls of cash there, otherwise they would just close the location. They can afford to protect their own patrons, Oak Lawn residents should not have to foot that bill.

Hookers on 87th? Call the police then...

No. Anybody else (that regularly posts and isn't made up?) ever see that?

Smoke Lawn. Broke Lawn. Never heard joke lawn but I know surrounding communities do not like us.

It COULD, but it really only happens at Chuck E.'s and Hooters...this doesn't seem to happen at Target, or HOBO, or Palermo's, or Longhorn (next door) or McDonald's even...so THOSE companies SHOULD bear the brunt of the cost to maintain civility in their business or move/close. Pawnshops install more security for a reason, as do many jewelers. Hickmart is known to have problems, and they have to supply their own roving security patrol car. CEC should have to do the same. Clearly the company is making fistfuls of cash there, otherwise they would just close the location. They can afford to protect their own patrons, Oak Lawn residents should not have to foot that bill. This isn't new, they aren't being caught off guard...they are shirking their community obligation in lieu of money. Shocking a corporation would do that, I know.

Dave W when you say "clearly the company is making fistsful of cash" - how do you know that? Are you their COO? Have you reviewed their finances. Is it a franchise where the owner is not making a huge profit? We don't know! Does it matter how much they are making?

Dr. LLS, this company has had a LOT of problems at this location. I'm the first one to call out people for blaming a company when the problem is the people...I'm not saying that the people aren't the problem, even.
There is a limit, though...other businesses have kept up with their security issues, some have not. In Oak Lawn, it is primarily the same three (or WAS), and now one of them are gone (well, repalced with hopefully better management). Private security at a place of business is nothing new. Twenty years ago I worked at Western Trails, and on the weekend we had on off-duty OLPD officer there, all year round. Repeat, TWENTY YEARS AGO!
If they aren't making money AND are running this location despite numerous problems, that speaks to a much larger, possibly systemic problem with CEC. So, what it comes down to is either they are incapable of providing a safe enviroment, or they essentially refuse to do so. Either way, it is their responsibilty to maintain security ON their premises. As I said earlier, Hickmarts are KNOWN to have security issues, to the point that they have a dedicated patrol car non-stop making the rounds. It is the cost of doing business sometimes. This isn't a matter of anybody's rights being infringed upon, nobody is searching anybody illegally. This is merely protecting patrons and townspeople. By NOT doing so, they are themselves bad neighbors. Just as nobody wants to live next to a bad residential neighbor, neither do they want CEC.

Maybe CEC doesn't employ off-duty OLPD like Hooters...they could close them too though.

GUNS

Even though I don't consume alcohol, I don't see how liquor has anything to do with this shooting incident.

Bill - exactly - saying liquor is involved is not in any of the police reports or news reports. This seems to have come from left field. We should deal with facts, the law, business owners legal rights, police investigations and what the police have found out. Perhaps the police chief can tell us more about the details of what they discovered as to who did the shooting.

No, but there's a distinction between a restaurant where you can bring children and an establishment whose primary purpose is for the entertainment of very small children. Perhaps a no alcohol policy might keep the focus on being a place where it belongs.

I could live with a place being marketed as a 'family place' not having alcohol...places want both, and sometimes they are not making the right decision.
Go to the zoo and see parents walking around with a beer the size of a Gatorade cooler and their kids are chasing down the poor geese like they should have been raised by the wolves instead. If we always want to worry about not blaming 'things' that 'some people' abuse or misuse, then we better get used to more stupidity, more violence, more kids getting shot...I don't believe that is what the Founding Fathers were thinking when they were granting rights and liberties. It is only my right to be an idiot or dangerous up to the point where it infringes on your right to live your life with the same liberty.
Once they get sued by some unrelated persons for damage or injury done to them by other patrons issues, they will shape up, maybe, butn then it might be too late for some family, or their little kid.
So to reiterate, yes, I would be fine with that if the people are wanting to not get shot or trampled by ill-behaved children or their larger ill-behaved adults with kids (calling them parents seems insulting to people that understand what the word should mean).

"These people" as you say Pat F shopt at Target and KMart and also go to CEC. Are we going to close Target and KMart too so that our residents who want to discriminate against "these people" can have their way - and then reduce tax revenues as well as increase our legal liabilities for discrimination? Or are we going to ask the police to do an analysis of what the risks are actualy regarding gangs and tell us how best to deal with these risks, which are involved when ANY business is used to attract people to our suburb to spend money.

Wow, splitting the difference here, but...
Dr. LLS, it isn't wide-spread, it isn't happening at Target, or Home Depot, or Portillo's, or even Longhonr or K-Mart, right next door to CEC, or Denny's, the McDonald's, or the Gyros place by Hooters. It didn't happen at Jewel or Rosie's or Starbucks by the Brunswick, either. Specific places, with specific problems. Does it suck when you go to a store and stuff is all over the floor? Yes...but while it easy, and maybe even right to say that customers have been sloppy or lazy, ultimately, it is management that is responsible for keeping that property, that store, in good shape. So when violence or crime continues to happen at a store, they should take the responsiblity for that on their shoulders. Even Aldi has security in every (I think) store. There could be an ordinance that anyplace that sells alcohol and has more than two police calls in a year is mandated to have private security for the next two...maybe non-alcohol is three. That way it could be said that the place gets a few for what they pay in taxes, but after that, they go on a nuisance list and essentially probation. They always retain the right to just close on go to Evergreen Park or Chicago or anyplace that enjoys endangering the populace.

Pat F., the only flaw with your theory is that not many businesses in Oak Lawn can stay open on residents alone. Do you think the mall-strosity they want to build at 111th and Cicero will really surivive with just residents? Nope. They are PLANNING on it bringing IN people from other areas, even far-away ones. You are correct, however, that ANY business that has crime outweigh tax revenue far outweighs being a useful part of the community.
Not sure what else would go there, but could it really be any worse?

Dave W. You have some good ideas about ordinances in regard to mandating any business that sells liquor and has numerous police calls to be required to pay for increased security. This may withstand legal analysis and protect OL from discrimimatiom and liability charges.

How do you propose that the Village take action to keep such people out? How do you respond to residents that are concerned that a gang shooting took place in their own backyard at an establishment known to attract gang members. Arcades are not a desirable business to have anymore.

The village will have legal liabilities if we discriminate against CEC or Hooters without proving that THEY and NOT their Clientele are responsible for the gang shootings. They will say that a restaurant or arcade does not automatically attract gangs and they cannot be blamed. This all has to be discussed.

Unless we are a closed and gated community, we don't have endless rights to say who can come onto our streets or to our restaurants and businesses without risking a lot of legal liabilities for discrimination.

Dr. Shelton I wouldn't call it discrimination. Protection for ALL is a better word I think. Especially for the children: Black, White, Brown,Yellow, Red, Purple, Green or Magenta!
After all it is supposed to be For Kids, Young ones.

Mike, they used to have seven (if I remember correctly) trauma centers in the area. Budget cuts closed them all down...except Christ. Any major traumas get sent there.

All the other trauma centers closed because the government does not re-imburse the hospitals adequately for trauma care. Many people are uninsured and hospitals in this country although supposedly not for profit have raised salaries of CEOs from a modest amount to millions of dollars and specialty doctors like ortho, eye, cardiac, and neuro surgeons no longer make modest incomes like 30 years ago. They view medical care as a multimillion dollar windfall and make outrageous amounts of money off the misery of others. Until our health care system changes, most hospitals will avoid unre-imbursed trauma care like the plague. Medical care is no longer a service to society but now is consider a profit centered way to become rich - with the title of not-for-profit helping the stockholders of hospital corporations make larger profits because they don't have to pay property taxes and have discounts on water bills, etc.

What an intersting attitude on the value of human life...I'm not PRO-gangbanger, by any means, but wishing they would kill each other instead of just wishing for a world where gangbangers aren't as widespread because they had better homelifes and saw mroe than one path to monetary success would be a little better, no? I mean, I'm cynical and hold a grudge, but the issue is a little bigger than just who does what. When we collectively continue to ignore that (as we have for fifty or more years), we cannot be surprised when history keeps repeating. How far out will everybody live and still drive into the city for work just because we are too lazy or something else to tackle the real problem, the root cause?
I don't want to pay to 'patch them up' either, but wishing them all dead isn't going to happen, so why not instead wish them all better, or the whole world better, even.
A little too cold, even for me...sorry.

Who is too lazy or something else to tackle the real problem the root cause? Where is the responsibility for the gangbanger teachers parents and community? If one works in the city and lives in the suburbs its not their responsibility to raise inner city children. We drive to work everyday to support our own family and we donate generously to good causes. It's not my problem that gangbanger teachers parents siblings friends and community fails them. How well do you support your own family before you tag any suburbanite as lazy?

I think it goes without saying that the ideal is to address the problems on all levels. First, if the consequences were greater, maybe that would curtail gang violence and crime. I hate the term "repeat offender". If someone is at risk of hurting themselves and others wouldn't they be safer in jail......I suspect we would be. MY comment related to innocent bystanders getting hurt. If you want to punch, shoot or yell at someone---then find the person, look them in the eye and do what you are going to do. It would be ideal if we could get everyone to sit down and talk about it and come to a compromise....but that is probably not going to happen. I said if they NEED to kill each other--(I didn't say they should)--then at least they should be proficient enough in the chosen behavior to locate their object of their aggression and not kill or would innocent people including children by "mistake". If the consequences were greater, swift and certain they would have to change strategy and save the bullets.

I would like to hear from the police chief. I don't know the history you talk about. I took my son there 15-20 years ago and had no problem. I would like to see the police reports and get the chief's analysis and recommendations.

Dr. LLS...it was not as bad twenty years ago...it is bad now. Anytime besides 1pm on a weekday during school is a risk.
Nobody here is stretching how bad it is...I don't even know any residents that go there. My friends live five minutes from there, go to Longhorn ALL the time (I know, must be rough), and STILL go to the location in Tinley Park...as do I when I take my son. Just not worth the risk...

Seems like CEC has been warned more than once already...if they don't have a grade A plan this time, no license renewal. I agree with everything you say...our police are for the WHOLE town, not so one can be stationed outside of one or two places ALL the time...

It is possible for even people who live IN Oak Lawn to not always have a car...some of my clients are without cars, or only have one in the family and often take the bus at least one way to make appointments.

Dave W I think the poster might've meant having to travel with kids, presents, balloons and everything else a parent has to bring when traveling with little kids.
Just my opinion though. At least that's how I read it.

Been There
I took that possiblity into account, but sometimes a two car family isn't how the world works, and people do what they need to do. There was a time when everything was horseback or a wagon.

There are never any reports about fighting and children being knocked down or people ditching a check or shots fired at "walgreens sports authority portillos home depot kmart ect." It really is just Hooters and CEC's. Maybe they are gangbangers, maybe not, I do not care if they are, or if they are black, or white, or purple...I CARE that they are violent idiots in public places. Those places need to step up their security or close up shop.
I never see hookers on 87th Street, though, and I drive by there almost everyday.

Yes CEC does attract gang-bangers. Most arcades in the area do; visit these places and use your eyes. I don't know the reason why such businesses attract gang-bangers, but they do. The reason is irrelevant however. There's a world of difference between a place being targeted for a robbery and a place being used as a gang hang out. Robbers have traveled into nicer areas to steal since the beginning of time; however once the same undesirable element starts spending their leisure time in your town, there's a far more serious problem as the next step is moving in. Oak Lawn NEEDS to get and keep such people out of the Village if it wants to maintain a healthy future and attract quality residents. If accomplishing that goal means not renewing CEC's business license than so be it. The Village's ultimate responsibility is to provide a safe and secure environment for its residents and businesses. How do you think business owners in neighboring properties feel about CEC attracting a gang element and driving away potential customers?

The solution to the problem is more police or carrying a gun to take your kids out for games & pizza? I'm in favor of concealed carry and think it will be a positive for Illinois, but I should not need to carry a weapon to feel safe at establishments in my own town. As a taxpayer I also do not think we should be paying OLPD to babysit an establishment that attracts gangbangers; we should simply remove the establishment so the gangbangers will have no reason to come. You are asking for trained officers to sit and watch an establishment that attracts a criminal element rather than patrol out streets and parks rather than just remove the establishment?

I have a spider that lives in a corner of my basement that has had a web in place for nearly a year. The spider built his home (it wasn't given to him or subsidized). He/she preys on others only for a subsistent existence (doesn't expect free cheese and S.N.A.P.) and spends the rest of the day doing not much of anything. I see similar behavior from my spider and certain parts of our species (actually, the "not doing much during the day" the only similarity). Also the spider seems to have a far superior intelligence level and more importantly contributes more to our society if only for it's ability to rid my home of ants, flies, gnats and other undesirables.